RWD Converting Lamborghini Murcielago
- Thread starter Luzifer
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.....why? Well...maybe I need more explanation, what part is sacrilegious? I'm not religious either...lol.
I feel the people designing/developing/engineering these cars are brilliant. They have created amazing machines . Coming after the fact and criticizing and wanting to "improve" the car is wrong. Analogy will be of the movement that takes classic muscle cars takes out all the original technology and engineering of the day and "improves it". In my opinion the car is no longer representative of the era but a Frankenstein. I have a 1956 190SL and the car could easily be "improved" with a stronger engine, better brakes, gearing suspension among other things. Why don't I change it? I want to experience and enjoy what the tech of the day was and its inherent short comings. Being a student of car evolution and history it help me appreciate an era before my time. In the 1960s people were ripping out Ferrari Colombo V12s and putting Chevy engines to "improve" cars. Sure, there was more horsepower and many more mechanics who could work on the car. Those people saw nothing wrong in butchering the Ferraris. Would anyone today want those car? Or do those car reflect the evolution of Ferrari at that time? No we all lost part of a shared history when cars are heavily modified. So no, I"m not into hot rods or the F40 that Richard Rawlings of the TV show "Gas Monkey" made better.
OK, all good points. I agree....with one MAJOR exception. The engineers are brilliant, but for every brilliant engineer, there are 4 accountants, 2 safety inspectors, 7 DOT regulators, etc etc. Do cars come with the best tire optimized for them? No, they come with the goodyear/michelin/etc that is under contract with the manufacturer. Is the cars ride height at the optimal level? No, it's set by some stupid DOT regulation. Is the exhaust flow optimized? No, it's set by emission standards and noise ordinances. I can go on and on.
To discuss this specific thing, a RWD murci conversion, the Musci was designed as a RWD car. Bean counters and attorneys determined it too be to dangerous and a liability for the general driver/owner, so they added the archaic AWD system.
So, stand upon your ivory tower and look down your nose at us who choose to modify OUR cars. But at least concede that you are wildly wrong.
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I will chime in since I own a 580, which is a true RWD car. This is just an exchange of perspectives, not a contest for internet points.
It is worth remembering the Dodge Viper, F40, and Carrera GT era. Big power, RWD, and no effective ESC. That combination led to many serious accidents and lawsuits. Paul Walker, and Rodas who was a pro driver died in it. I believe manufacturers and lawmakers learned from this and push for AWD.
The 580’s V10 is obviously lighter than a V12, and the car is superb through corners. However, on straight roads at high speed, strong crosswinds can cause its frontend to lose stability. With ESC on, you can feel the system kicking in. With ESC off, the car can break traction very quickly. At those moments, I often think about AWD and the stability it could bring, while at the same time appreciating how much enjoyment RWD has given me.
I also agree that preserving originality matters. Modifications, in my view, should primarily improve safety and drivability rather than chase performance numbers alone. Balancing originality with sensible safety upgrades makes the most sense. In the US, with its wide roads, there is a larger margin for error. In Japan, with its tiny roads, the safety tolerance is much smaller, and even minor mistakes can lead to accidents. So, the key here is finding balance like ying and yang, ren and stimy, or popeye and bluto
It is worth remembering the Dodge Viper, F40, and Carrera GT era. Big power, RWD, and no effective ESC. That combination led to many serious accidents and lawsuits. Paul Walker, and Rodas who was a pro driver died in it. I believe manufacturers and lawmakers learned from this and push for AWD.
The 580’s V10 is obviously lighter than a V12, and the car is superb through corners. However, on straight roads at high speed, strong crosswinds can cause its frontend to lose stability. With ESC on, you can feel the system kicking in. With ESC off, the car can break traction very quickly. At those moments, I often think about AWD and the stability it could bring, while at the same time appreciating how much enjoyment RWD has given me.
I also agree that preserving originality matters. Modifications, in my view, should primarily improve safety and drivability rather than chase performance numbers alone. Balancing originality with sensible safety upgrades makes the most sense. In the US, with its wide roads, there is a larger margin for error. In Japan, with its tiny roads, the safety tolerance is much smaller, and even minor mistakes can lead to accidents. So, the key here is finding balance like ying and yang, ren and stimy, or popeye and bluto
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By the way, I’m not saying the 580 RWD sucks. It really comes down to how you like to drive. Anyone who has actually driven the car knows how good it is in the corners. It’s just not as strong in a straight line. AWD cars are more stable overall, but if you want that extra oomph through the corners and really shine, the 580 is the one.
Turn off ESC on track, stay focus, and it delivers a level of fun that no other cars can match. Of course, you never turn off ESC on public roads. AWD doesn’t mean the car won’t slip.
Turn off ESC on track, stay focus, and it delivers a level of fun that no other cars can match. Of course, you never turn off ESC on public roads. AWD doesn’t mean the car won’t slip.
@Sakura : Regarding Paul Walker and the Carrera GT crash. During the trail the Walker's family lawyers asked something to the extent if safety technology was available, which it was, why wasn't it used? So for people like us the Carrera GT is raw beautiful and dangerous and it can kill you and we love it. But in the court of law that doesn't hold weight. This article has some reasons why the crash occurred : https://www.cnn.com/2013/12/03/us/paul-walker-crash-car
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The key issues on that accident are speeding and reckless driving on public roads, which place the responsibility squarely on the driver.
Safety features like ESC would not help much here. They can stabilize a car on a track, but on public roads with potholes, uneven surfaces, and slippery concrete, there is often no time or space to recover. Roads also have poles and trees that tracks do not.
Not trying to sound like a boring grandpa, but do not rely on safety systems. Know the car’s limits, know the road, and keep high speed driving on the track. On public roads, drive spiritedly only within your skill level and the car's limits. Good tires matter. Defensive and performance driving courses also help.
While I don't think the courts ever said this, the general accepted reason for the Walker crash by enthusiasts are the old tires. It was driven by an experienced racer (Roger Rodas) the parking lot was basically empty (still doesn't make driving stupid outside of the racetrack OK) and he crashed.....due to the bad tires. Not because of modifications, nor a badly designed car by Porsche.
www.thedrive.com
The Truth Behind What Caused Paul Walker's Fatal Crash
The likely cause is so mundane we never talk about it. Let's change that.
www.thedrive.com
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Good article. I know it feels a bit wrong to comment after an accident like that, especially when people died. Still, to me this looks more like driver ego and bad judgment than anything else. Even the writer seems to have a bit of ego mixed in
This kind of thing often happens to rally drivers, which is why rally cars have mandatory roll cages. Plenty of times the roll cages save their lives.
Taking that corner at around 90 mph in that parking lot is already mind boggling. In my opinion, at that speed the car would lose grip regardless of AWD, ESC, or good tires. AWD, ESC, and good tires help, but they do not defeat physics. Then you switch to RWD with ESC off, which is exactly what you want if your goal is to slide or drift through a corner. The car was going to skid no matter what.
I can make the car skid and drift in a corner with fresh tires at around 15 mph just by turning off ESC. That is the beauty of the 580. Now imagine doing that at 6 times the speed. It is important to understand both the strengths and limitations of the car.
This kind of thing often happens to rally drivers, which is why rally cars have mandatory roll cages. Plenty of times the roll cages save their lives.
Taking that corner at around 90 mph in that parking lot is already mind boggling. In my opinion, at that speed the car would lose grip regardless of AWD, ESC, or good tires. AWD, ESC, and good tires help, but they do not defeat physics. Then you switch to RWD with ESC off, which is exactly what you want if your goal is to slide or drift through a corner. The car was going to skid no matter what.
I can make the car skid and drift in a corner with fresh tires at around 15 mph just by turning off ESC. That is the beauty of the 580. Now imagine doing that at 6 times the speed. It is important to understand both the strengths and limitations of the car.
